Editorials

Editorial: Response to Emma Sulkowicz’s talk

By
Sunday, April 19, 2015

On Thursday, Emma Sulkowicz spoke to Brown students about her experience with sexual assault and its influence on her senior thesis. Her story made national headlines when Columbia allowed her alleged rapist back on campus. In her talk, she explored the idea of consent in a sometimes controversial manner. In particular, Sulkowicz argued that there is no scientific, objective method of proving sexual assault; in other words, the only people who can truly assess consent are the two involved. Yet date-rape drugs such as GHB, when accurately determined to be in someone’s system, indicate lack of consent or the lack of the ability to give consent in a sexual encounter.

‘Consent’ is a seemingly simple word. Oxford Dictionaries defines it as the “permission for something to happen or agreement to do something.” Yet when it comes to sexual assault, our idea of consent can be murky. Sulkowicz, for instance, addressed the idea of violent sexual encounters and BDSM. Made popular through novels such as “Fifty Shades of Grey,” these acts further complicate our idea of sexual assault. There was a point in time when the presence of bruises would automatically indicate rape. But as Sulkowicz addressed, bodily harm could now reflect a form of consensual sex. In her case, the bruises from her alleged rapist are not a definitive indication of sexual assault — as argued by Sulkowicz herself.

When it came to her ideas on drugs and consent, her argument began to falter. Sulkowicz insisted that the presence of date-rape drugs in someone’s system does not conclusively prove sexual assault. Some people, she said, might ask to be given drugs such as GHB in an effort to live out a sexual fantasy. In this case, consent has been given to be drugged. Therefore, according to Sulkowicz’s argument, laboratory results indicating the presence of date-rape drugs cannot accurately demonstrate a lack of consent.

In sexual assault cases, however, the issue is not whether someone consented to receiving a date-rape drug. The issue lies in whether someone consented to sex. Date-rape drugs such as GHB lower inhibitions, cause memory loss and lead to drowsiness. Essentially, the ingestion of these drugs renders someone incapable of giving consent in a sexual encounter.

Sulkowicz’s ideas on sexual assault and consent are possibly troubling for survivors. It is, perhaps, an incredibly isolating experience to believe that the only people who can evaluate whether consent was given are those involved. It is essential that we assure students that sexual assault cases can be objectively investigated through rape kits and accurate laboratory testing.

Editorials are written by The Herald’s editorial page board: its editors, Alexander Kaplan ’15 and James Rattner ’15, and its members, Natasha Bluth ’15, Manuel Contreras ’16, Baxter DiFabrizio ’15, Mathias Heller ’15 and Aranshi Kumar ’17. Send comments to editorials@browndailyherald.com.

  • Choking Kojak

    “I love you, Paul.”

  • An interested observer

    Wow, this woman keeps twisting arguments: She has never mentioned that she had bruises before, and I suspect there never were any. The absence of evidence sometimes means that the alleged crime did not happen, even her supporters believe that the absence of evidence in rape cases is proof. I think she made it up, jus as she made up the friend who had to explain to her that she was raped.

    • An interested observer

      Should have read: “even IF her supporter…” Sorry.

  • Manhattan

    Emma is the Lena Sclove of Columbia.

    But I urge readers to read Emma’s story in Columbia’s newspapers. Emma’s parents are constantly hovering over her and they even wrote a piece in the Columbia Daily Spectator.

    • Kortn

      She’s the “Amazing Amy” of Columbia, imo. Severe mental issues.

  • Jim

    This woman is a fraud, even by the standards of the kangaroo court Columbia set up to “handle” these claims

  • Heisenberg

    Columbia University could not unearth enough evidence of sexual assault using a ridiculously low standard of proof, and manner of investigation that is clearly weighted in favor of an accuser. Yet she’s still being held up as a sexual assault victim … The feminist equivalent of an Eagle Scout. Time to move, Ms. Sulkowicz. Your 15 minutes is up.

    • Doc

      She is clearly a psychopath and needs immediate detention in a long-term medical center. No one in their right mind would graduate a person with such a diseased mind, and certainly no one would hire her…. unless one’s looking for help moving furniture.

      • Sketches93

        Pretty sure the mattress symbolizes that she’s ready to go, anywhere, anytime now.

  • Jackie Treehorn

    If campus rape is such an issue you’d think we’d be able to find one real one to rally around rather than hoaxes.

    • sway

      They are, but they don’t fit the narrative (aka it’s not a white guy)

      • Sketches93

        Or the white guy happens to be gay.

    • Taquoshi

      So, this woman who carried a mattress around campus as an “art project” and even went so far to carry it at graduation, went on to offer to sell her mattress to a museum. Then she released an 8 minute long sex video tape on to the Internet (which I have no intention of watching, voluntarily or otherwise) and is now speaking to the students at Brown about consent?

      Paul Nungesser’s lawyers must be dancing with glee over this.

  • DonC

    Seems to me, the gist of this editorial is that buyer’s remorse is a cause to accuse someone of sexual assault. Tell me, if both parties are drunk the night before, can only the woman cry sexual assault in the morning?

    • Bee Dubya

      Wrong – its relational control, not buyers remorse. It is a very feminine trait – relational control and aggression.

  • jwz

    Funny thing about consent is the SJWs seem to think it can be amended or rescinded after the fact. Days, weeks, months later, the once-willing partner can decide she really didn’t consent after all.

    • Bee Dubya

      True – its a measure of relational control. The former partner has complete control of the post breakup relationship. Its all about CONTROL

    • Saint_Sithney

      Well, sometimes things are more complicated. My ex-boyfriend raped me during our relationship. I told him “No”, he grabbed me by the back of the neck and forced me onto the bed while I screamed and cried. When he finished, he brought me a glass of water, brushed my hair, and cuddled, telling me that it was fun to have tried his “rough sex fantasy”. I had zero self esteem and he was very good at gaslighting, so I just dropped it, even though I felt violated.

      I didn’t really connect what he had done to rape until I had been free of him messing with my perception of reality for about six months. I was discussing our past sex life with my therapist when that little story came out, as well as a few other times when he had ignored my lack of consent, then played it off as a fun sex game afterwards.

      • Jonathan David Farley

        So…you admit your “perception of reality” is distorted and you expect us to take your story at face value. Don’t ruin a man’s life because you have issues.

        • Saint_Sithney

          Was distorted because of gaslighting by an abusive partner. Do you really not understand that abusers try to control and alter your perception of events? Another time he had sex with me while I was having an active seizure. He again played it like I had indulged in a fantasy, and that I hadn’t really been saying “No, stop” or trying to get him off me, but performing for an experiment.

          I never went to the police because it was way too late, nor am I publishing his name, so I didn’t “ruin his life”. But I still have to live with not only having been raped, but having my rapist treat his violations of me as a bit of kink, and with having been emotionally abused into a nervous breakdown, and with having morons like you disbelieve me. I hope you don’t have any daughters, because you seem like the type to blame them being raped, or not realizing that all sex against their consent is rape.

          • Jonathan David Farley

            Sane people know what consent is and always have. You don’t get to rewrite the dictionary—i.e., water down the definition of “rape” but then demand that we become as furious when we hear about what you call a “rape” as we would if your notion of “rape” was the original (and correct) definition.

          • Saint_Sithney

            Rape is sexual contact against the consent of one party. How is a woman being held down screaming “No” or a woman having a seizure not being raped? In what universe is that not rape? No one can consent when they’re having a damn seizure, and I was very clear on my “NO”.

            I didn’t register it as rape at the time because I was being gaslit (which is when one party deliberately tries to make another party believe things are different from reality by acting like they are crazy, or like they misunderstood what happened). That is a common tactic of abusive partners. People (men or women) who have been with abusive partners for long periods may not register sexual violence against themselves until they are safely away. Of course that’s different than a regretted one night stand, but that wasn’t what I was talking about, was it?

          • Jonathan David Farley

            My response was to your initial statement about fantasy role-playing. I’m not addressing these other scenarios you’re coming up with now that you see I’m not buying the first one.

            And, no, rape is not contact without consent. Otherwise you’re saying this woman, who touched the behind of a male baseball player when she ran on to the field, committed rape and should be sent to prison for 20 years.

            https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/untamed-beast-attacks-buttocks.jpg

            And you definitely can’t revoke consent after the fact.

          • Saint_Sithney

            Wow, dude, you apparently have serious issues with reading comprehension.

            I stated in the first instance that I gave a very clear “No” the first time, he shoved me down and held me while I screamed and cried. Afterwards, he used gaslighting to convince me that it was a pre-arranged acting out of a sex fantasy, rather than a blatant violation we had never discussed, and that he had no right to continue after I said “No”, even if we had discussed adding in Domination and submission. I got to continue with the deep feelings of violation and to keep my mouth shut because he convinced me I was irrational, while he got to rape me if he felt like it, because when I said “NO”, he could act like it was a game that I had forgotten I agreed to. Even though I never agreed to it, and even in a hardcore BDSM scene, there needs to be a pre-established way to withdraw consent. He gave me zero ways to withdraw consent, and if I asked what he was playing at, he tried harder to convince me I was crazy. But I don’t know why you want so badly to convince a stranger she was not raped, unless you’ve figured out who I am and are a friend of his or something, or you approve somehow of using brainwashing techniques to keep a domestic partner from realizing they are being abused. I never gave consent in the first place, in fact, I explicitly denied consent. He ignored that fact. In the seizure instance, I had given consent, but I withdrew it when I realized I was about to seize (saying “I’m going to have a seizure, stop”).

            And I said unwanted sexual contact because men can be raped by women, without him being penetrated. They can be sexually abused by their partners.

          • Jonathan David Farley

            What I read was the part where you said your “perception of reality” was off.

            Your damselling won’t work on us anymore: you can thank Emma Sulkowicz for that.

            P.S. Go to a bank with a mask and a gun and hand the teller a note saying that you are not robbing the bank. That way, when the police arrest you, you can tell them that you said you were not robbing the bank—therefore you clearly weren’t.

          • Saint_Sithney

            This is a serious question: what the hell is wrong with you? I pointed out a specific thing – that victims of domestic abuse may not comprehend that they were victims of sexual violence until they are removed from their abusers. Because, again, and I have no idea how often I have to repeat this until it sinks in, ABUSERS MESS WITH YOUR REALITY.

            And either way, why are you trying to convince a woman who has stated multiple times that she was a victim of mental abuse and rape by one specific man that she was not really raped or abused, because a woman who is trying to paint all men as rapists and abusers said she was as well? Is the bullying a power trip for you? Again, I hope you don’t have daughters, because you seem like the type who would blame them if they stayed with their abusers.

          • Jonathan David Farley

            You made your bed.

            There may be some bizarre scenarios which I would exclude, but in general I do blame women who stay with “abusers” (unless they are chained in the basement).

          • Neroke2013

            AGREED In North America there are more DOG shelters than mens shelters. There is NO WAY that any female in the west cannot claim that she couldn’t get away and there was nowhere to go.

          • water cannon boy

            When you state that at the time it happened you were clear about saying no, you were forced down and held down, you were screaming and crying, and he convinced you that it was prearranged; which apparently, the two of you must have had a back and forth conversation of he said you agreed to it and you said no I didn’t agree to, with it finally ending in you saying that you must have agreed to it but don’t remember saying it; then you shouldn’t be surprised that somebody hears your story with a large amount of skepticism.
            It would take a rare weak mind to be aware, in the moment, that they are being physically forced to do something sexually, to be in the emotional state that you said you were in during that time of awareness, and then to be malleable enough that someone could say that they remember the words coming out of your own mouth better than you do, agreeing to such a awful event.

          • Saint_Sithney

            I don’t think you really understand what long term mental and emotional abuse does to a person. He picked me because I was already an abuse victim, already used to being told that I had “misunderstood” events, already used to shutting up because everyone else was obviously so much more important and because everyone else had the capacity to hurt me.

            Like many abusers, his behavior after the abuse was exemplary. He was charming, kind, gentle, and attentive. It was like the stereotypical beating your girlfriend, then bringing her roses. He raped me, then cuddled and brushed my hair. He brought me a glass of water. He cooked breakfast the next morning. He gave me a footrub. That’s how abusers get in your mind. It’s not always awful – they hook you with the good times and make you think you can love them so well it will eventually only be good times. Which is why I hate “50 Shades” so much, because it’s peddling the narrative that made me stay with my rapist as “erotic”.

          • calbeck357

            The statute of limitations on rape is only around six months in your state? Most of the time, it’s at least several years. I’d press charges.

            By the by, yes I am a rape victim and yes the statute of limitations ran out. I was a ward of the California group home system, nine years old at the time while my rapist was twelve. On reporting the incident to the staff, they laughed and called me weak because I was a boy and can’t I fight off another boy? I must have liked it, you see. So THEY didn’t report it, and no one would listen until many years later.

            Yes, if your boyfriend did that to you, I’m recommending you call the police NOW.

          • Jonathan David Farley

            She has no evidence anyone did anything. If the police acted on her story, that would be the real crime.

          • calbeck357

            I never assume someone is lying; I always give them the chance to demonstrate they are telling the truth.

          • Jonathan David Farley

            She can be telling the truth (although anyone who admits there was something wrong with her “perception of reality” obviously lacks credibility) and still have no evidence anyone did anything. Without evidence, unless police departments now hire psychics, police should in fact do little or nothing.

          • calbeck357

            Exactly my point. Not assuming they’re lying has nothing to do with assuming they’re telling the truth, either. Hence giving them the chance to demonstrate one or the other.

            In other words, I want to resolve the question, not just leave it hanging so it can be endlessly asserted as fact or false by one camp or the other. In the meantime, the accused remain innocent by default.

      • 1bestdog

        Any time somebody accuses another of gaslighting I wonder.

  • Marty

    Where were the protesters when this woman, who committed an ongoing act of violence against an innocent man, came to Brown to speak? Where was the “safe space” for people who might be “triggered” by her remarks?

    Why is this woman, who is clearly, clearly, a liar who is guilty of criminal harassment and belongs in jail, being allowed to traipse about as if she did nothing wrong?

  • Bob

    Sulkowicz’s alleged rapist has sued Columbia University, it’s president, and the faculty advisor who encouraged her mattress carrying “art” project under Title IX for failing to protect him from harassment and defamation after he was found innocent of her accusations. There is no doubt that she lied. And the factual statements in the complaint suggest Nungesser will eventually sue Sulkowicz and her hysterical SJW friends for defaming him. Pages 4 – 14 are especially enlightening.

    https://kcjohnson.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/nungesser-complaint.pdf

  • Mike

    Although I agree there are ways of finding out objectively what happened the idea that voluntarily taking a date-rape drug means that you “cannot” consent is wrong in my opinion.

    It’s parallel to the drinking argument, if you voluntarily diminish your inhibitions you are still the only one who can possibly be held responsible for having sex with someone. If you get drunk and run someone over your guilty of the crime of manslaughter, worse there is a specific crime for that case (vehicular manslaughter) which is actually a more serious crime (in terms of punishment).

    By the same token if you get drunk and (in your drunken state consent) have sex with someone than you gave your consent and are responsible for your actions. From that you can say that if someone DID voluntarily take a rape-drug than they aren’t necessarily being raped. If you are into that there is no reason why you and a trusting partner cannot partake in such a thing without one of you being guilty of rape.

    However it’s not that simple as VERY few people take rape-drugs voluntarily and that’s a claim that would need to be proven.

    • technopundit

      One suspects that a person who really was into that sort of thing wouldn’t file charges in the first place. Of course, the other person may be living quite dangerously by participating; hard to prove someone wanted to take such drugs should the relationship sour.

  • thaimoss

    You kind of have to read this for “the rest of the story” (or, what used to be known as “the defense”)

    https://kcjohnson.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/nungesser-complaint.pdf

    • JEng

      those texts are not indictive of a sound mind yet he continued to communicate with her indicating that he COULD have seen her as someone who could be taken advantage of – people can be mean to girls like her and it is considered socially acceptable – but he also should not have had anything to do with her because look at her reaction – it was not worth it nor was his lawsuit paperwork worth it – exposing her with those texts exposes HIM.

      • Jonathan David Farley

        Publishing the texts was the best action he could have taken. He should have done it from the beginning.

        • JEng

          I think it killed him because he should not have attended to her inappropriate texts. It’s not someone you want to hire for a job. Rupert Murdoch fired some Chinese American golden boy who brought a stripper to a Fox TV meeting.

  • technopundit

    I don’t think the implications of her argument are what she thinks they are.

    For one thing, this is a good argument against behavior-based surveys that have found 1/5 campus women are assaulted, and which do so in part by categorizing incidents as assault regardless of how the respondents view the incidents (or even whether they remained friends with the “attackers”, etc.).

    As far as that goes, I agree, though denial really can be a factor sometimes.

    However, we need to be able to provide some certainty to the people involved. It’s a miscarriage of justice to convict regardless of whether a reasonable person would have found both parties consented.

    I think she may be confusing “consent” with “everyone feels great about what happened”.

  • Aaron

    More proof that while women obviously don’t want to be raped for real, they fantasize about being raped. Everything women complain about men is simply a projection of their own sick minds and fantasies. Men don’t fantasize about raping women. Thats disgusting but because women want to be “raped” they broaden the term on consent so that they can pretend to be raped or even worse use consensual sex as a way to blackmail men with false rape accusations.

    • Bee Dubya

      Not PC, but definitely onto something.

    • JEng

      that’s not true – just because vampire romances are popular and Sex and the City were rammed down our throats culturally does not mean that girls have changed and want to be harmed or forced

      • Jonathan David Farley

        “Current research indicates that between 31% and 57% of women have fantasies in which they are forced into sex against their will, and for 9% to 17% of women these are a frequent or favorite fantasy experience.” Critelli, JW, Bivona, JM. “Women’s erotic rape fantasies: an evaluation of theory and research.” J Sex Res. 2008 Jan-Mar;45(1):57-70.

        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18321031

        • JEng

          I would say that they are being misreported and that ardor as a sign of commitment and devotion is being mispackaged as out of control assaults. I have a strong feeling because I read on Slate.com many years ago that Liz Cheney wrote soft core porn – that the government is actually controlling our perception and creating a safe place to give us a misrepresentation of sadistic behavior so that when faced with the real thing like the stuff done in WW2, we will reject it.

          We don’t live in a Yaoi/Lolicon country. We have Jonbenet and Toddlers in Tiaras many of whom have parents in the military AS IF to respond to the Lolicon brainwashing that the rapists and killers of Chinese baby girls would have the world convinced was hot stuff.

          How else to explain 50 Shades of Grey ending up in hotel rooms instead of the Bible? Someone had to have done that and it was inspired by Twilight, correct? I haven’t read it but that thing is definitely being promoted as if government wants us to read it and it has to be leading up to something.

          If the Chinese and Koreans especially the KMT KNOW that Japan filmed the home invasions in China where they forced extended families, where they made Corean girls dance and sing, where they made our dancers and acrobats perform naked, then I also think somewhere there are white survivors who were also were filmed – maybe the French and English teenagers trapped in the Strand Hotel in Burma, maybe in Vietnam. Our government wants us prepped and it is not the first time they breached our privacy and conservative tendencies to do so.

          • brett caton

            Ok, this now sounds like paranoia. You may need to talk to a doctor about your belief that the governments of the world are conspiracy to make women masturbate while thinking of naughy activities.

            But maybe I’m just saying that – because I’m one of THEMMMMM (*cues dramatic music*)

      • brett caton

        “just because vampire romances are popular ”

        the biggest market is women’s erotic fiction which is full of rape and bestiality.

        “and Sex and the City were rammed down our throats culturally ”

        Who held you down and made you watch it?

        “does not mean that girls have changed”

        Agreed – women have always had submissive tendencies and that includes rape fantasies.

        “and want to be harmed or forced”

        People do lots of stuff in fantasy they specifically do not, and sometimes, cannot, do in reality – if anything, such fantasies are boringly normal.

        And if you don’t think many – perhaps most – women desire a little pain or loss of control, you aren’t listening to them. Pain harm.

        and her text messages do not represent all young college women or American women her age – they are solely her own.

        • JEng

          Do woman in the United States or around the world tend to allow nevermind enjoy when someone shoves them in a crowd or steps on their foot? NO. Why not? if we are such eager recipients of abuse? We wouldn’t be arguing with anyone, pushing back AT ALL if we were happy to take abuse. If women are taking abuse, it’s because they are powerless but very rarely do we ever have so much Stockholm Syndrome that we shrink back like we are staring into a snake when the brother in law of her husband’s murderers sadistically prolongs conversation with her and he won’t move away from her even though I am at the top of the stairs shouting “Good bye. thank you” to him repeatedly to make him get off of her.

          And even when you are so messed up and scared as my mother and brother often are, they still shove back when they are surprised just like my mother shoved back a married florist the first and EVERY time he tried to force his way into my murdered father’s office and grabbed her and tried to kiss her.

          So don’t even try to win on any women like rape claims – if they LIKED it, it wouldn’t be rape – that’s why they have to beat the girls first so they won’t enjoy it – the fantasy has to be the reality that the girls really don’t want it so by your claim that women like rape – then it’s not rape – and then it won’t work for the actual rapist who is not looking for sex but to destroy, to harm, to break up one’s inner peace and to make someone cry authentically.

          So that’s probably why someone told my mother that when they heard that murderers were finally arrested, that people pounded the tables in the tea parlors because they also had been pulling normal working girls on East Broadway after they got off work into limousines and then throwing them out after they were finished with them.

          We saw the ringleader with very fancy young women – who were genuinely pretty in the parking garage after my father was killed. It’s not the same thing if you can pay them. It’s not FUN unless the girls don’t want it and if someone wants to be raped as you claimed which I don’t think it is possible, then the rapist won’t want to rape them. and that is why every rape is a rape regardless if the victim previously thought it might be tolerable or even desirable.

          I don’t know how Garrett Dillahunt has a career after Last House on the Left. It’s very very painful to watch that film – and yes the ending is some comfort but it did its job in conveying the destruction and meanness of the crime. And that’s the way it feels when someone merely pinches your 8 year old behind – MEAN. It’s no fun.

          So when you are thinking that Mike Tyson or whoever else was being received with desire – you try it first – as a guy – you try someone smacking your backside in the locker room, someone as a JOKE ripping off an article of clothing, You try having SO MUCH fun.

          • brett caton

            Jesus, there was so much straw in that argument I think you gave Jupiter hayfever.

            What did I say?

            “People do lots of stuff in fantasy they specifically do not, and
            sometimes, cannot, do in reality – if anything, such fantasies are
            boringly normal.”

            And what do you claim I say?

            “Do woman in the United States or around the world tend to allow
            nevermind enjoy when someone shoves them in a crowd or steps on their
            foot? NO.”

            These two things have no connection, except that you don’t know how to answer my argument – so you just make up a weak argument you can knock down.

            That’s pathetic. It means you are either a liar, or an idiot.

            Both?

            Are you going for both?

            Fair enough.

          • JEng

            ew. There is no way that females genuinely enjoy fantasizing that someone doesn’t care about them and will touch them in a mean, inconsiderate and painful way.

            Go watch Last House on the Left – no need to go for the unrated copy which I didn’t even know existed until I saw it in a rent control tenant’s apartment – I’ve seen the fight back ending twice but the entire preceding parts are really horrible but effective in conveying what a terrible thing happened to those girls. It’s like reading Piepel – you don’t need to and probably can’t go over it more than once but it communicates effectively.

          • brett caton

            “There is no way that females genuinely enjoy fantasizing that someone
            doesn’t care about them and will touch them in a mean, inconsiderate and
            painful way.”

            Uh huh. Oh dear. You’ve not looked at women’s porn before, have you? Women write books for other women about women being raped by dinosaurs. I don’t think they are getting off on how considerate their partners are.

            The biggest market in fiction right now is BDSM ebooks – it’s cheap, disposable, and very profitable. It’s written by women for women, it’s utter rubbish but a good source of income.

          • JEng

            Is any of this women writing for women porn anything like the actual crime of violence (this has never happened to me – the gangsters scared my father about it but I’ve only gotten into fights with white boys about being called chink and gotten hit by Chinatown connected females – older women in the building, the tenant advocate by proxy when her gorilla brother smacked me very hard and in Taiwan when the Malaysian cohort of my bible studying super KMT roommate whipped me with soap in a plastic bag on my roommate’s behalf and I had no conversations with that roommate – she was always running off trying to get premed’s attention – they just felt it was time to get me and were so goody two shoes looking (unalluring) they figured they could get away with it).

            Try to take a pounding and get off on it because I am guessing that all the Korean horror films that cannot possibly have an audience involving Korean schoolgirls being choked while the killer stands between their legs – the echo in Rising Sun where the German model Tatiana Patitz enjoys being choked – that’s probably a modus operandi during WW2 – something that survivors – repeat offenders like non Chinese Corean rape victims WOULD have noticed was happening a lot to them AND it explains why multiple eyewitnesses saw the Japanese RETURNING to already passed through to look for DYING Chinese children to rape – they want to feel life leaving a rape victim.

            Go join a fight club – not a rape club – MERELY a fight club – see how much you like it – take note of how many women are members – there ought to be many if as you say we love ardor and affection supplanted by callous selfish violence. Why would celebrities in useful marriages play the doting and devoted husband? If what you say is true, Josh Brolin with his reputation against Diane Lane should be very popular with female fans.

            I don’t mind anyone bringing this up because it will become an issue eventually when we have to discuss the WW2 rapes. The Nuremberg trials and the vanishing of Treblinka indicate the desire of the Axis to deny their crimes. So underfeeding people intentionally is just a personal dietary choice by anorexics and bulimics. Violence and rape is just BDSM and mutually desired yaoi Nambla love affairs.

          • JEng

            I would write roman a clef about all our experiences in Chinatown especially the elaborate gaslighting. It’s mentally sick that so many people got involved because their mark was so stupid and vulnerable and gullible that it would be EASY to fool her.

  • Neroke2013

    Seriously? What kind of rape victim sends “I love you” and “I want to see you” messages to her rapist weeks after she was supposedly raped. This whole thing is going to eventually fall apart either for Columbia and/or Emma

    This and the recent eviction of a group at the Calgary Convention are both going to fall out sooner rather than later

    • Bee Dubya

      One that wants relational control. That is what this is about – women want complete control of the relation and whatever they guy does post breakup.

    • JEng

      AFTER? Are you sure? I find that lawsuit hard to read because they both sound so crazy in text messages.

      • Neroke2013

        Exposes him as what? Insensitive? Your claim is based entirely on the fact that he chose to keep speaking to her. That proves NOTHING other than he chose to keep in contact with her. And since I know you’re trying to Stockholm Syndrome this thing you would have to prove that he kept on harassing her after the first incident. Which not even Emma says happened.

        Nice try dumbass!

      • shannajanet

        He doesn’t sound crazy in get messages at all! Are you serious? She is all over him!

        • JEng

          I didn’t say I approved or agreed with her but if she is such a nonsensical person like Tra La La in Last Exit to Brooklyn (horrible movie with a Comfort Women ending) then she is VULNERABLE because a secret and careful predator sees her as stupid, exposed and a crime against her will be easily gotten away with.

          Her crap previous conduct does not erase the possibility that she was raped.

          Now are we pardoning the rapist because of the conduct of the raped? NO = there is nothing written in the LAW that says we excuse rape when the victim is kind of nutty, right?

          I scanned her crazy text messages – they certainly weren’t good but you know what? willing prostitutes get raped and MURDERED all the time – they and the homeless are the first victims of serial killers because they are socially defenseless. So I am not calling the rape victim (allegedly) here a prostitute but I am saying it does not matter if she was idiotic in her texts and conduct prior to the one time that he decides after previous consensual conduct that it is okay to GET AWAY with being mean to her.

          And yes, she could be a liar. All those other accusers could be as well but we can’t let secret predators, sociopaths coast along in society – ONLY hurting in disguised ways nowadays and no longer openly like raping slaves in broad daylight or cutting off and nailing the breasts of French farmers’ wives and daughters to the walls of their homes in WW1.

          We don’t have to prosecute nonguessuer just to maintain our position in society against raping our more … libertine victims but we always have to maintain that it is NOT okay even if she is a sex worker as the Japanese claim against the Comfort Women.

  • les nabis

    Sulkowicz is not the most credible source and speaker for the young people at Brown. I encourage you to read at least first 3-4 pages of the complaint filed in Court by the person she falsely accused.
    https://kcjohnson.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/nungesser-complaint.pdf

    Sexual assault, on campuses and in society as a whole, is a VERY serious problem. False reports, lying, and smearing the names of non-guilty individuals who are accused only hurts the otherwise admirable goal of educating people about and fighting against rape and other crimes against women. Further, this type of self-promotion Sulkowicz has been able to maintain for quite a while, and her careless invocation of victimhood, only serves to dishonor and make a mockery of women who HAVE been on the receiving end of this type of vile crime. This student should be ashamed of herself and true feminists should have nothing to do with her.

  • les nabis

    Sulkowicz is not the most credible source and speaker for the young people at Brown. I encourage you to read at least first 3-4 pages of the complaint filed in Court by the person she falsely accused.
    https://kcjohnson.files.wordpr

    Sexual assault, on campuses and in society as a whole, is a VERY serious problem. False reports, lying, and smearing the names of non-guilty individuals who are accused only hurts the otherwise admirable goal of educating people about and fighting against rape and other crimes against women. Further, this type of self-promotion Sulkowicz has been able to maintain for quite a while, and her careless invocation of victimhood, only serves to dishonor and make a mockery of women who HAVE been on the receiving end of this type of vile crime. This student should be ashamed of herself and true feminists should have nothing to do with her.

    • JEng

      do you mean she is not credible or do you mean she is not likeable because of her text messages indicating her past conduct and perspective?

    • Vincenzo Oregano

      Brown?

      Pay attention much?

    • water cannon boy

      Murder, arson, graft, grand larceny, kidnapping, embezzlement, violations of the Rico Act. child abuse, all very serious problems.

    • NoPasaran

      Actually, it’s less of a problem on campus than in the general population.

  • ted

    /thread

  • Cincinnatus

    “It is essential that we assure students that sexual assault cases can be objectively investigated through rape kits and accurate laboratory testing.” Then go to the police and stop these star chambers on campus and stop destroying people’s lives on mere allegation often springing from the mind of a woman scorned. The damage is does to the accused is direct. The damage it does to the credibility of legitimate crime victims is indirect but significant.

  • Cincinnatus

    “It is, perhaps, an incredibly isolating experience to believe that the only people who can evaluate whether consent was given are those involved.” It’s not a belief, it is a fact. It is also not nearly as isolating as being expelled on the weak allegations advanced by a past sexual partner.

  • pokeyblow

    Emma lied. Jackie lied. You’re a newspaper: cover the damned story.

  • Timmy Whimmy

    Have you noticed the trend of feminists defending her “I love you’s” and outlandish behavior after the fact? No one even mentioned that at least part of the time her charade was going on, he was in Europe.

  • 1bestdog

    Wow, of all the thousands of actual rape victims that this woman who has exploited her accusation that was not proven on any level whatsoever and who has succeeded in trashing a man’s name internationally is now giving talks ANYWHERE as the voice of sexual assault victims is scary and disgusting.

  • Complete Emma Sulkowicz timeline: http://newslines.org/emma-sulkowicz/?order=ASC

  • calbeck357

    Sulkowicz’s argument eliminates, in legal terms, the very existence of sexual assault, because NOTHING can be determined to define what it is — except, in her argument, literal “he-said/she-said” claims.

    Problem being that at law, this is and has always been insufficient to convict anyone of ANY crime (well, at least since the days of the Salem Witch Trials). There must be a preponderance of evidence, and the opinion of a person with a potential motive to obfuscate or mislead in a legal action is not evidence.

    What Sulkowicz appears to want is for laws to be written which define rape as whatever the participants of sex say after-the-fact… which, at least in the United States, would be ruled as unConstitutional in their first court challenge and struck down.

  • brett caton

    ” the ingestion of these drugs renders someone incapable of giving consent in a sexual encounter.”

    Those properties are rrelevant to consent, and if the law changes to agree with that, then the law will be inconsistent.

    For example, if I drink and drive, I am responsible. I cannot claim I did not consent to the act. If I plan to take a drug and commit murder, the drug is no defense. If i plan to take GHB and have sex, it is my choice (and possibly a terrible choice – but still MINE).

    And there are people who enjoy taking sleeping pills and being ravished, or being hyponotised and ravished, or just managing somehow to sleep through the whole thing…

    There’s not a lot of men who haven’t been woken up by a lover giving a very special kiss – we normal people trust our lovers and ourselves to say no when we need to.