Before his lecture in Salomon 101 Dec. 8, the Rev. Jesse Jackson sat down with The Herald to offer his insights about presidential election results in Ohio, the future of the Democratic Party, the war in Iraq and Barack Obama.
Herald: You've been in Ohio for the past few weeks. Can you tell us more about what you've been doing there?
Jackson: It took 34 days before (election) certification. Imagine if five states on the challenge had taken 34 days. Imagine if the Ukraine had taken 34 days or Iraq or South Africa. And that was because of the huge numbers of irregularities. We've been constantly told things were going well - obviously not. It took a month and a week after the election. In the provisional balloting, 88 counties are using different machinery and different standards. Some counties have punch cards, some have scanners, some have old machines. In the inner cities people stood four to six hours to vote, in the suburbs half an hour to vote. The inconvenience alone violated section two of the Voting Rights Act, so you had some anomalies. Warren County had a national security alert - locked out the press and independent observers. Now why would you have a national security alert for Warren County? It suggested that something was not going right...
You have other anomalies like (in the case of) a black woman named Ellen Connally, who ran for State Supreme Court Justice. In Cuyahoga County around Cleveland, where she is best known, Kerry got 120,000 more votes than she got. Around Cincinnati and the Hamilton area where she is least well known, she got 109,000 more votes than he got in 15 counties. ... We need a thorough investigation with forensic computer analysis to see if the machines in fact were rigged. We need a recount and we need those in charge to recuse themselves.
Herald: Kerry lost Ohio by about 120,000 votes. Do you think a recount would push his total over that of Bush?
Jackson: Yes, as a matter of fact, what happened, just as we have been charging, the margin went down from 136,000 to 119,000 and that's without checking the machines. And many other people were turned away (from the voting booths). The press wrote about how gallant it was that people stood in the line for four to six hours to vote, but you must know thousands didn't stand in line because it rained all day, you see?
Herald: Do you think John Kerry screwed up this election?
Jackson: He conceded too quickly. By his pulling out early, it took scrutiny away early, as well as having press all over the state finding out what happened. It pushed Ohio back in the margins...
He promised that he would watch the people's back and not have another Florida with a concession and not walk away, and he did. I think he raised the right issues during the campaign, but what's phenomenal today is the cultural insecurity many Americans have meaningful to their culture over their economics and over world peace.
Herald: Let's say you were the president of the United States today. What's the first thing you would do?
Jackson: Put convenient, non-critical European and Middle Eastern allies on a full-scale diplomatic offensive to figure out how to get out of Iraq gracefully. We have no moral basis for being in Iraq. We're losing lives, money - a billion dollars a week - and losing our honor as we bomb ourselves into isolation. And there is (no) end in sight for the Iraq crisis. It's getting worse. It's getting worse. What it's based on is a lie - we're told that (there) were weapons of mass (destruction), that there was an imminent threat there, that al Qaeda connections were there. We found out that instead that there was a predisposition to go to Iraq on some theory that (former Assistant Secretary of Defense Richard) Perle and (Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul) Wolfowitz have used: knock on Iraq and lay some groundwork for Middle East peace. It has had the opposite effect, so really we're in Iraq in violation of international law.
Herald: How well do you think the Democratic Party today is serving African Americans today?
Jackson: We've identified our interests. ... Democrats want affirmative action - women and people of color benefit. Democrats support raising minimum wage and working with poor people. They support overtime pay for overtime work. They support keeping Social Security more secure and less at risk.
And it is the more multicultural party. Eighty-eight percent of Bush's vote was white - it's by design. They polarized the country on racial lines, so then therefore there are three black Congressmen - an additional three this time - from Milwaukee, one from Houston, one from Kansas City and an African American U.S. senator and a Latino senator from Colorado. The Democrats are the multicultural party - the bottom line.
Herald: President Bush just nominated Condoleezza Rice to be Secretary of State and two Hispanics to Cabinet seats. Do you think the Republican Party is doing a better job of getting people of color onto the political scene?
Jackson: No, no, because when you put people of color of top-down right-wing liberation ideology, it is not what's by the roots. Condoleezza Rice supports the war in Iraq; most people of color don't. She was against the Kyoto treaty; most progressives were for it. She's bright for what she does, but her politics are right wing. When you look at these up-top positions, neither Bush nor Ashcroft would meet with the Congressional Black Caucus, organized labor, Rainbow or NAACP. Not one meeting in four years - a closed door policy. So you have people up top, kind of like fig leaves, but fundamentally the party is extremely Confederate and right wing.
Herald: How do you think the average person of color at a college can get more involved in politics?
Jackson: First of all, on the campus. You have the right to register where you're at school. If you're at school at Brown, you have the right to register and vote in Providence. You should imagine a big voting pull on your campus. ... A power base of 6,000 students has a tremendous impact on the politics of Providence and Rhode Island, given the size of the state. So that's how you break your feet in - you should have somebody from Brown in city (council), and you have enough students to do so. You should get somebody (from) Brown on the state legislature, and you have enough population to do it. That's using that power, right?
Herald: What will the Democrats have to do to retake Congress in 2006?
Jackson: I think remain steadfast against this war because it's deteriorating, keep fighting for economic reinvestment in America, keep building coalitions and stop the voting irregularities, because if you keep winning and they keep taking elections by irregularities, you can't even win when you win. The first thing the Democrats should do is fight for the constitutional right to vote for the president.
Herald: Are you saying the Democrats should stick to their core beliefs rather than reaching over to other side?
Jackson: Expand, but honor your core principles.
Herald: Who would you like to see as the 2008 presidential candidate for the Democrats?
Jackson: That's a little bit far fetched right now. I think that our needs are more fundamental than that.
Herald: What are your impressions of Barack Obama?
Jackson: He has great gifts and skills and a great future. He's well grounded, intellectually sound, he's progressive and he should do well. I support him very much; he's my neighbor.
Herald: Can you see him in the White House?
Jackson: Yes, I think so. I think that's a tricky question, in this sense tricky: there's no shortage of blacks who could be president. I think it has more to do with white maturity or white receptivity than qualified black people. Women are capable of being president - of being president tonight. It doesn't matter if are women qualified - it's if the nation is mature enough to accept women for their worth. This is not like some special something they have to do to be more qualified. Look at George Bush, he's essentially mediocre. But in it, the definition, he's been the president twice because he has white male advantages. And effort and excellence is a big deal, but inheritance and access is a bigger deal. And cultural affinity, and white males have cultural affinity.
Herald: Can we expect to see you in another presidential run?
Jackson: I don't think so. Just count on me hanging around Brown some place with people.
